Death in Adam Life in Christ

by Mike Ratliff

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned– for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. (Romans 5:12-14 ESV)

Last week I received several comments from a Pelagian who attacked the doctrines of grace with his arguments against original sin. That view is totally man-focused and utterly unbiblical. I have had many comments lately from people who have escaped from the Word of Faith Movement. This has caused some others to attempt to make comments here defending the WOF and ridiculing those who have left churches who were becoming mired in apostasy. Are these things related? At first glance, Pelagianism, WOF, and the growing apostasy in our churches do not seem to have much of a relationship. However, there must be one because these comments were all in reference to a series of posts I made about the differences between the natural man mindset and the transformed mindset along with the comments from some readers.

I intended to write a piece tonight on the Word of Faith movement, but as I researched it I found that it would take a great deal more time to gather all of the material than I have this week. Therefore, let us look at our salvation by grace through faith that the Pelagians tell us we can do by our own willpower alone.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Genesis 2:16-17 ESV)

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. (Genesis 3:6 ESV)

“By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”
(Genesis 3:19 ESV)

God commanded Adam to eat from every tree of the Garden of Eden except from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He told Adam that if he did eat of it that he would surely die. In the next chapter we find Eve beguiled by the Serpent’s wiles to look upon that tree and desire it for food to become wise. She took of it and ate then gave some to Adam. God then encountered them as they hid from him since their eyes were now opened because they now knew good from evil. They had lost their innocence. Their vertical relationship with God was now broken. Their ability to commune with Him was no longer there. Why?

Their Spirits, the part of them that related to God vertically, had become cut off from Him because of sin being in the heart. Their Souls, the part of them that related to their environment, took over control. The fulfillment they had always received from their relationship with God was gone. Sin was now present in them and their Souls, desperate for fulfillment began to seek it from the flesh. They had died spiritually. They went from being Spirit-led to being Soul-led. Their bodies also began the process of dying.

Adam’s sin contaminated our entire race. All born of Adam are in the same spiritual death condition that Adam and Eve found themselves after they sinned. Sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned. Pelagius argued that this last statement was untrue. He was a moralist who taught that all men are capable of not sinning. How would that be possible? He taught that people could simply make up their minds to not sin then use their will power to do good. He argued that we do not need God’s help in this endeavor either. Not only is that fallacious, it is unscriptural. All are born dead in their trespasses and sins.

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience– among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. (Ephesians 2:1-3 ESV)

All who are dead in their trespasses and sins walk in them as the world does. Why? They have no relationship with God and, therefore, a dead Spirit. Without that, we cannot commune with God. He can speak to us, and can make Himself known to us, but we cannot have that deep personal relationship with Him until our spiritual death is taken care of. We must be Born Again or regenerated in order for this deplorable condition to be reversed.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10 ESV)

For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:3-7 ESV)

But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. If, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. (Romans 5:15-19 ESV)

Now tell me, if we can be good and holy and sinless without God’s help then why did Christ die on the cross? Why is it that our salvation so radically changes us if it isn’t necessary? No! The washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit was poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, so that being justified by His grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life! I hope that you also noticed that regeneration comes first as well as that Christians’ righteousness comes through Christ’s obedience while the lost are dead in their sins because of the disobedience of Adam. The difference is made when people are Born Again. Our salvation is both supernatural (our regeneration) and forensic (our justification).

Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:20-21 ESV)

The Law condemns people who are lost in their sins. However, salvation results from grace reigning through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:20-23 ESV)

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. (Romans 8:1-11 ESV)

From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:16-19 ESV)

Okay, now if we are all born not under the condemnation of sin like the Pelagians teach then what is Paul talking about here? Why and when would we attain the Holy Spirit if we didn’t need Him? As we have seen already, we are all born in sin and are saved by grace through faith, not by our works. Paul also makes it clear that it is the washing of regeneration that enables us to believe and repent and become justified by God. He imputes Christ’s righteousness to our account. Since we are New Creations and we have the Holy Spirit, we set our minds on the things of the Spirit not on the things of the flesh. The natural mindset is hostile towards God, but the transformed mindset is in communion with Him. This is something that requires spiritual growth, but it is still true even in new believers. (Romans 12:1-2)

Lastly, please reread the passage above from 2 Corinthians 5:16-19. Christ reconciled us to Himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation. Now what does that mean? What is going on that so many people hate our message, but only a few get it, grasp it, and live by it as God regenerates them and makes them part of His family? Is there something wrong with our message? No, not as long as we preach it just as Jesus, His disciples, and Paul did.

I was on Tom Ascol’s blog today reading about the movements within the SBC to reconcile the differences between the Reformed SBC churches and the non-Reformed SBC churches. Tom estimated that the Reformed churches in the SBC are quite a bit less than the Arminians. However, that number is continually increasing. As more and more churches self-destruct by trying to become culturally relevant by removing the Law from the Gospel, God is calling His own from them to not be part of those doctrinally unsound bodies. Some are called to simply to seek Him for a season while others are sent to become part of genuine churches that do adhere to doctrines of grace. In any case, God is still building His Church.

Tom shared that the leadership of the SBC were very concerned about the lack of genuine evangelism going on in their churches. He then stated that he was not surprised because the majority of those churches were Arminian in nature. He believes that when the majority of the SBC churches become Reformed, the evangelism problem will go away. I agree with that completely. Why? The Arminian “gospel” is based on men making decisions while we preach a Gospel that is Good News that the lost who are condemned in their sins can be saved from that penalty by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, repenting of their sins and receiving Him as Lord and Saviour. That is not simply a decision for Christ, but the result of God drawing sinners to Himself (John 6:44). That salvation takes place as God regenerates them, cleansing them of their sins, and enabling them to believe the truth.

Well, enough of this. I pray that you saw my heart here. God saves His people and they cannot be saved any other way. Also, we need to spread that good news to everyone because we have the spirit of reconciliation.

32 thoughts on “Death in Adam Life in Christ

  1. There is a newspaper thats out called The Pathway and its SBC. In it they said that only 4 or 5% would call themselves 5 point Calvinist. We knew it was a low number, but had no idea that it was THAT low. Tom Nettles did an article in that paticular edition.

  2. Tom Ascol was talking about the number of churches not the number of people. I have gone back to reconfirm that number but I can’t find that article now. I will continue to look.

  3. Mike, I am looking forward to your article on WOF. I have family who are deep into that movement . They become very offended when I try to point out problems with some of their beliefs. I have been reading on the web lately trying to understand this movement better so I can make a better case for the truth. But it does seem pretty complicated. When I first became a Christian, I was into the charismatic movement for a short while. I think it the same thing as WOF but I could be wrong. (I am in a pretty conservative Baptist church now. My relatives think being Baptist means legalism and rejection of the work of the Holy Spirit. ) Any light you can shed on WOF will be most helpful. Thanks so much!

  4. Would Luther,Spurgeon,Calvin,or Jonathan Edwards tolerate the WOF Heresy ?

    OF COURSE NOT ! They would stand up and Call these TBN Hucksters out !!!

    We must forever remember MATT. 10:16

    The ONLY thing we can trust in this world is the
    Protestant Bible, I have seen too many lives destroyed by theses self-appointed Wolves !
    We need to be scolded by Paul again like the Galatians were for bearing up with False Doctrine. I say Stand Up and FIGHT any other gospel that isn’t the TRUE Gospel (once delivered to the Saints ! ) Stick an old Hymn CD in your Car and enjoy an escape from Today’s Apostasy….” A Might Fortress is our God ” should do the trick !

  5. Mike,

    Amen and amen! Back in 1984 I was very thick in the WOF movement. Copeland and Hagin were my heroes. One day the Holy Spirit clearly spoke to my heart and said put all of the WOF teachings away and have nothing more to do with them and get into my word for I will teach you what you need to know. I admit it was a struggle at first to obey that word from the Lord but I eventually gave in. Within a few weeks of just going to the word of God and listening to him I made a shocking discovery. Everything the Holy Spirit was teaching me was about the Lord and nothing about me. It was just the opposite of the WOF teachings that focus primarily on self. It was during this time the Lord gave me Jeremiah 9:23,24 as a point of reference to always seek to know and understand him. He made it clear that for me, it is all about him, and for him, it is all about me. True life comes from setting our hearts entirely on the Lord and away from ourselves. I look forward to your future posts on the WOF and its oppositional teachings that hinder knowing the Lord our God. May the Holy Spirit enlighten, inspire and strengthen you in this endeavor.

    Loddie Resnick

  6. Thanks for sharing that Loddie! I have to make a quick trip to the OKC area Thursday evening and will return Monday evening. When I get back I intend to tackle this. Please continue to pray for me in this.

    In Christ

    Mike Ratliff

  7. What makes it hard for WOFers to leave that white witchcraft belief is that it works! It did for my husband and I. The reason is because of the demonic forces behind it. It is a sensual belief appealing to the flesh. Though people will say that it glorifies God when their prayers are answered, at the heart the believer of this thinks they must be in a special relationship with God, i.e., having His favor on them. It is a false peace and security. It makes for pietism in the negative sense. May God do to His children in this belief system as He did to us and pull the rug out from under them! Some will grumble but hopefully with time they will see the errors of WOF. I did, praise God!

  8. Well said Sherry! I did some preliminary research yesterday. That is why I realized that the hole was alot deeper than I thought at first. I will do as much research as I can on this then start posting a series on this sometime next week, God willing!

  9. Hi Mike,
    I have found that Sandy Simpson’s Apologetics Coordination Team website deceptioninthechurch.com has a lot of articles on the WOF. Trish Trillin’s articles from Cross+Word are good and can be accessed from this site. Mrs. Trillin’s Cross+Word site is now longer active but she has kept it up for the articles to be accessed. It has been at least 10 years since God opened my eyes to the error of this movement and I have only seen one married couple leave it to seriously study God’s Holy Scripture without the filter of man’s self-righteous teachings clouding their minds. All the others that I know are either still believing the WOF or have morphed into other natural mind set movement like Dominionism, Kingdom Now, Latter Rain, Theophoctic’s, personal prophcies and deliverance ministries with people like Kim Clement as their hero. It is like they are unable to hear the voice of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ when they look at the Bible, they seem to have this helmet of a natural mind set firmly in place while they read the bible. I gave my sister- in- law a MacArthur study bible and the book by MacArthur “The Only Way To Happiness: The Beattitudes” last fall. She has read this book three times and is showing sign’s of awaking from the stupor of the WOF influence. God Bless.

  10. Faye,

    Thank you very much for this. Also, as I read your comment I could not help but see the common thread of spiritual blindess and STUPOR that these people have. Stupor comes from God because of people’s continual idolatry. What is their idol? Isn’t it self? I suppose it could be their ministers as well. In any case they are spiritually blind and what you shared about your siser-in-law really brought that out. Her blindness and stupor is slowly eroding as she submits more and more to the truth. She is being drawn into the light. Never stop doing this good work!

    In Christ

    Mike Ratliff

  11. Hi nce site..I often read Kens site who’s a internet friend,also like to read Mike Corley site..

    I’m not right with God not been for a long time,to be honest orginal sin really is one of the roots of my problems..Its hard to comprehend i’m guilty and sinful because someone ate a apple thousands of years ago,its not like you would blame someones grandchild for something their g/dad did,is it? no it would be spiteful,so are we more fair then God?

    Also i struggle with the idea that God creates us into a sinful state ,then blames us when were sinful, bit like a general sending his solders off to war then blaming them when they shoot someone..
    Would you say Just euqals being Fair? Does God have to be fair is that one of His traits?

    Any sermons that you could point to,to lose the chip on my shoulder??

  12. Faye, deception in the church was the site that opened my eyes on a lot of false beliefs I had. Another thing that I believe comes from WOF, or uses it abundantly, is the spiritual warfare prayers ala New Apostolic Reformation headed by C. Peter Wagner. This,too, I once was involved in. They are a group of false prophets whose god is their belly. And that is the god that is worshipped- the god of their belly. Mike, you will have quite the task ahead of you because it is an ever enlarging pit. I pray God does will to do this through you and that He gives you the time needed and the insight of its deep rooted cause. May He use you to speak His Word to deliver thoise who are so snared in this belief. Amen.

  13. Thanks Sherry C…this is why I stopped last night and wrote this piece. It was becoming very obvious that the WOF movment is as mercurial as the Emergent movment except much more deeply entrenched. I have relavtives in it and it is heartbreaking to here them talk and then we see where their hearts really are and that isn’t on God, but on themselves.

  14. Hi thks Mike..I very much like J Piper,i love is bio sermons..The irony of my post is that i really admire reform Christians of the past,i really loved the integrity of men like M L Jones etc and that makes it impossible for me to just go a different route totally i.e emergent or open theism,i just don’t see the same integrity there or love of the bible that people like Jones had..

    I recently realized i was guilty of what Jones warned about in this quote

    There is nothing so dangerous as to come to the Bible with a theory, with preconceived ideas, with some pet idea of our own, because the moment we do so, we shall be tempted to over-emphasize one aspect and under-emphasize another.

    m l Jones

    So i’m very happy to be proven wrong.
    ;-) andy

  15. Mike, Yes I knew and meant to say it was only 4 or 5% of the churches that claim to be 5 pointers………sorry. The whole point was that Plegianism and Arminianism and Synergism are rampant in the wof momement as you know. You are tackleing the devils gospel if you plan to do an article on it. We agree with you 100% but be prepared for the attacks that will come your way like never before. I’m sure you know that too, so we will be praying for you extra hard. Since both me and the wife were at one time up to our necks in the wof movement, and it is demonic to the hilt, we will pray the Lords protection on you Mike. Blessings to you and the wife.

  16. Paul and Luann,

    I am glad you pointed that out last night because I was basing my facts on what I head read earlier and that without it right in front of me. Then I couldn’t find the document. Pah! Anyway, please pray for this. I know that if I tell the truth with power from on high then those WOF folks and their mouthpieces will come after me. However, I am in God’s hands and seek only to do His will. Therfore, yes, please pray for His wisdom and leading. Amen!

  17. Would you say Just equals being Fair? Does God have to be fair, is that one of His traits?

    Andy,

    “If God was fair, no one would be saved for all are completely unworthy of salvation.” That’s a quote from Mike’s post The Transformed Mindset (October 20, 2007). We are unworthy not just because of Adam; we are unworthy because we show contempt for God’s glory every time we sin, that is every time we exalt our worthiness instead of God’s. We are responsible for that, not Adam.

    God is Love. God is Just. The justice of God demanded that the Perfect Sacrifice atone for our wickedness. Only in this way could God’s love be expressed. Only in this way could God reconcile fallen man to himself.

    Pray that God will open your eyes to see things from his perspective. You are looking in the right places for answers. Listen to Piper’s sermons under the topic “The Glory of God”. They helped to open my understanding.

    Dale

  18. Mike,

    If you want to do a piece on the WoF movement, get ready for lots of people to show up here screaming “Touch not the Lord’s anointed!” or “Don’t put your mouth on the man of God!”

    But the Lord is your helper; you shall not fear what men can do. Also, if you need materials for research, I have tons on my site.

    You know that the Lord snatched me out of the deep darkness of the WoF group. Its a deep hole – so deep that almost every other group (Anglicans, Catholics, Baptists, Dominion, Pentecostals, Evangelicals and others) have been infiltrated with WoF teachings and practices.

    The Lord keep and stregthen you.

  19. Mike,
    I am trying to understand here. Sorry if this is too long.

    Aren’t you saying this:
    *Depravity is total: “In this fallen state, the free will of man towards the true good is not only wounded, infirm, bent, and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost. And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace, but it has NO powers whatever except such as are excited by Divine grace.”

    *Atonement is intended for all: Jesus’ death was for all people, Jesus draws all people to himself, and all people have opportunity for salvation THROUGH FAITH.

    *Jesus’ death satisfies God’s justice: The penalty for the sins of the elect is paid in full through Jesus’ work on the cross. Thus Christ’s atonement is intended for all, BUT requires faith to be effected. “Justification, when used for the act of a Judge, is either purely the imputation of righteoussness through mercy… or that man is justified before God… according to the rigour of justice without any forgiveness.” In other words there are only two ways in which the sinner might be justified: (1) by our absolute and perfect adherence to the law, (which other than Jesus, is impossible) or (2) purely by God’s imputation of Christ’s righteousness.”

    *Grace is resistible: God takes initiative in the salvation process and His grace comes to all people. This grace (often called prevenient or pre-regenerating grace) acts on all people to convict them of the Gospel, draw them strongly towards salvation, and enable the possibility of sincere faith. The offer of salvation through grace does not act irresistibly in a purely cause-effect, deterministic method but rather in an influence-and-response fashion that can be both freely accepted and freely denied.
    Man has free will to respond or resist: FREE-WILL IS LIMITED BY GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY, but God sovereignly allows all men the choice to accept the Gospel of Jesus through faith, simultaneously allowing all men to resist.

    *Election is conditional: “the decree of God by which, of Himself, from eternity, He decreed to justify in Christ, believers, and to accept them unto eternal life.” God alone determines who will be saved and his determination IS that all who believe Jesus through faith will be justified. “God regards no one in Christ unless they are engrafted in him by faith.”
    God predestines the elect to a glorious future: Predestination is not the predetermination of WHO WILL believe, but rather the PREDETERMINATION OF THE BELIEVER’S future inheritance. The elect are therefore predestined to sonship through adoption, glorification, and eternal life.

    *Eternal security is also conditional: All believers have full assurance of salvation WITH THE CONDITION that they REMAIN in Christ. Salvation is conditioned on faith, therefore perseverance is also conditioned.Apostasy (turning from Christ) is only committed through a deliberate, willful rejection of Jesus and renouncement of belief.

    Thanks for the clarification and the article above. I send out warnings re the emergent ‘church’ to my church and friends too. And you seem to be correct, WOF and people like Joel Olstein are connected!

    Love in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior,
    Rachel

  20. Thank you Yomi! I will check out your site. I have relatives in that movement and I know that I will feel a great deal of heat for doing this, but as you said, The Lord is my helper and I only fear Him. Thank brother!

  21. Mike, your allusions thus far are spot on accurate with respect to the common themes which are interwoven throughout the seemingly disparate emergent, seeker sensitive, purpose driven, and word faith movements.

    While appearing to be different at first glance, a deeper investigation reveals that they move almost as one, as if guided by an unseen hand, and let it be known that this IS NOT the hand of God nor is it the gentle guidance of the Holy Spirit. No, for if they were truly of God these groups would not be wallowing within their man-centered non-gospel theological cesspool.

    There is a massive deception underway within the broader professing church that’s leading countless millions of blind and deceived adherents down the broad path which leads to destruction.

    This is clearly the work of the enemy during these last days when men would become lovers of themselves and be given up by God to the reprobate lusts of their own perverse and desperately wicked hearts.

    May the Lord continue to draw men unto salvation by His Spirit and open their eyes to the rampant deception that’s currently running amok within modern church-ianity.

  22. That is very astute of you Coram Deo. You’ve got it my brother. I am taking the weekend off, including Friday and Monday. When I come back next week I intend to start an exposition on the WOF movement. Please pray for me on this. I feel that this is what we need to be doing, telling the truth about every aspect of the compromised church. The battle has just begun.

  23. Rachel,

    After re-reading your comment I must say that I disagree with it. I made my original comment last night as I was preparing for my trip to OKC. I did not give it the attention that I should have before approving it. You must know that I am a Reformed Baptist and your points are the classical Arminian view of salvation (thanks Dale), and I cannot agree with you.

    In Christ

    Mike Ratliff

  24. Mike,
    I don’t understand your reply to Rachel. What she posted were the 8 points of Classical Arminianism by Jacobus Arminius. It is not what you are saying.

    Your answer doesn’t seem to apply to her question.

    Dale

  25. Dale,

    I have rephrased my comment to Rachel. Thanks for your help! I found her comment in the SPAM bucket then recoverd and approved it without reading it fully. I suppose it would be best to not do this task while running around the house packing and preparing for a trip. That really is no excuse though. I pray that I will be more careful in the future.

    In Christ

    Mike Ratliff

  26. Mike,
    I guess that you agree with only a few of the points then and disagree with some of the others? I am assuming this based on other past posts. BUT to reaffirm my other comment to you, I sooo agree that the WOF false teachers like Joel Olstein are connected. I hadn’t really thought about it too much before yesterday, but they are really saying the same thing. They put all of the power in SELF instead of Christ. Yuck! That NEVER works :) And thank the Lord it doesn’t, as while we change, He doesn’t!

    Love you in our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ,
    Rachel

  27. Yomi,

    Your right on about the churches being intertwined. My brother is a WOF, full gospel, penticostil,charismatic! I really believe they are similar. Yup, It’s all about them, not about Jesus. In fact I had a disagreement with my brother about K. Copeland and , according to my brother.K Copeland is alright. as he can tell his good fruit . K.C. must have an apple orchard by his airport. :)

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