by Mike Ratliff
And leaving them, he went out of the city to Bethany and lodged there. In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he became hungry. And seeing a fig tree by the wayside, he went to it and found nothing on it but only leaves. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once. When the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither at once?” (Matthew 21:17-20 ESV)
It was in late fall of 2004 that I realized a very important Biblical principle. Up until then I had always assumed that when God gives us a message or lesson or sermon or counsel in which to write or teach or preach or give to those who needs to hear it, He would also cause those hearing it to recognize it as the truth, believe it, and obey it. Reality hit hard. The principle I learned was that God is glorified when we obey Him whether the results of our obedience meet our expectations or not. What happened was that I shared with the men at our old church the wonderful news that all God really wants from us is our devotion and obedience rather than just our religiosity. The results were not exactly what I expected. For the most part, I was looked at like I was a little green spaceman from the planet Zargon.
There was a couple of the men who wanted to hear more. We drew together and each of us shared the path on which God had us. I was not surprised that these two were also being drawn closer to God, but it disappointed me that the rest just weren’t interested. There is ignorance, then there is deliberate ignorance. We all suffer from the former, but the latter is a form of unbelief which has its roots in our pride and rebellion. Surprisingly, God does command us at times to go to those in hard-hearted unbelief and speak the truth to them even though the odds of them repenting and obeying is very low.
Yet they did not listen to me or incline their ear, but stiffened their neck. They did worse than their fathers. “So you shall speak all these words to them, but they will not listen to you. You shall call to them, but they will not answer you. (Jeremiah 7:26-27 ESV)
We must remember here that this is speaking of professing believers. Those who profess faith in God, in Christ, that they are His people. This isn’t speaking of reprobate unbelievers. No, this is an indictment against those who call themselves Christians, but refuse to heed and repent when given the truth from God. God is merciful. He is slow to anger. He gives people chance after chance to repent. In the Old Testament account of Israel and Judah, it is amazing how long He allowed them to continue in their rebellion against Him.
The Church has from its inception at Pentecost been under siege by Satan and his seed. The war is waged on every conceivable front. However, it seems that the most devastating attacks come from within. This is why we are warned in scripture about the nature of those who do this.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:15-23 ESV)
These false prophets look genuine, but inwardly they are full of destruction. How do we recognize them? We must observe the fruit of all prophets, teachers, and preachers. If they are genuine then their fruit will be good. If they are not then they will eventually produce bad fruit. What is the difference in the fruit? The fruit of a ministry will be the spiritual health of those to whom it ministers. That means that if a minister of the Gospel is genuine then He will work within the range in which he is led by the Holy Spirit. As a result, the sheep in his care will grow in their knowledge of Christ, their obedience to Christ, and they will exhibit the fruits of the Spirit. This will be so because these sheep are in step with the Holy Spirit in denying and restraining their flesh.
What would be bad fruit ? We must never forget that false prophets espouse false doctrine. False doctrine cannot restrain the flesh. As a result, not only will the leadership in the ministry be fleshly, the sheep in their care will not be fed good spiritual food, therefore, they will not grow in their knowledge of Christ, their obedience to Christ, nor will they exhibit the fruits of the Spirit. I can think of no better contrast of this than is found in Paul’s epistle to the Galatians.
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:16-25 ESV)
Remember, we cannot exhibit the fruit of the Spirit if we are not also growing in our knowledge of Christ and obeying Him more and more. These three things work together and will all be evident in the sheep who are being properly discipled by godly pastors and teachers. This is why it is such huge tragedy that the predominate form of Christianity in the world right now is the product of the Church Growth movement. This movement is all about restructuring churches so that they will appeal to the unchurched. They take away the Gospel and replace it with easy-believism which saves no one. This non-gospel removes the person’s need for a saviour. It never mentions Hell. It never mentions repentance. It is all about easing people into their churches by making them think that their religion, such as it is, is going to save them.
The emphasis in these churches is to grow. Therefore, they change everything in the Church to attract people who hate church. They make the entire enterprise a watered down, non-threatening crusade with loud music and light shows. It is the promise of salvation and a better life that costs nothing. The churches who do this who also have the right mix of entrepreneurship in its leaders can grow to enormous size. Yes, the numbers are there, but what sort of fruit is being produced? Is it just leaves? Is it briars? Is it thorns?
It has been pointed out that it is amazing that some still fall for this form of Church since it has been well documented how devastating it is to the Church family through the implementation of it. Then there is documented proof that this form of church spiritually starves the flock. Also, many of us have been writing of what is wrong with it from a Biblical perspective. The backlash from those who love the seeker-sensitive church model has been very interesting. Here is an example. The man who wrote that works for Erwin McManus .
There is a lie being perpetrated all through the Church in our day. That lie is that it is wrong to confront those who are teaching false doctrine. The lie is based on another fallacy. That fallacy says, “There are no absolutes.” Now we are back to those who are deliberately ignorant. These fellows demand that we stop pointing out where their doctrines are not biblical and also that we include them in “orthodoxy.” What puzzles me is why they want the latter. If they hate what we call Orthodoxy then why do they want to be seen as part of it? In any case, these people have been warned. They have been confronted. They have been given every chance to repent. What has been the response?
There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” And he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. And he said to the vinedresser, ‘Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?’ And he answered him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure. Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.’” (Luke 13:1-9 ESV)
God is patient. However, as we see here, there will come a time for each who refuse to repent when it will be too late. Our Lord’s emphasis here is that each of us is like the fig tree that is planted in a vineyard. The test of authenticity here is fruitfulness. We have already seen what fruit He is looking for. If all we have are leaves, i.e. we are religious on our own terms, we are producing either no fruit or bad fruit. The leaders in the Church Growth movement have been warned. They have been rebuked. They have not repented. Why? The form of church these fellows love is their idol. They love the numbers. This is idolatry. What does God do to people who claim to be His, but who are really idolaters? Doesn’t He give them over to their idol? Doesn’t He give them hardened hearts making them spiritually blind? Does this mean we stop telling the truth? No, we must continue until God says stop. The greater guilt will be in the leaders who lead these folks into eternity hoping in themselves and their religion. However woe be unto those who know the truth, but who do not warn everyone about these men.
SDG
Fruitless Fig Trees is JUST what the churches are. It is amazing to us that we are seeing this everywhere and hearing about this very thing all over the world. You talk about the Lord instead of totally worldly things and they look at us like we are from ‘Zargon’ too!! No one knows what the Belgic Confession is, or Canons of Dort, Heidelberg Catechism, and if you mention the Westminster they call you stuffy and legalistic. They say, ‘We just follow the Bible, we don’t need all that made up stuff by man’. They do know who Luther and Calvin was and they don’t like either one of them. Sheesh!! Talk about slim-pickens around us, its pathetic.
Thank you for your faithfulness to the Lord. It is a sweet aroma. I have a question…
What is the purpose of looking at these fruitless fig trees? I believe that God’s design in everything is to use it to conform us, Romans 8: 28 – 29 I can’t always change what is around me, but God will use what is around me to change me. I believe that in every situation like this that we must look at it like a horse and cart. The “cart” issue is the “church.” The “horse” issue is me. So I must first deal with what God is wanting to teach me through this and then I am prepared, ready to be the vessel, to do anything He calls me to do about the “church.” If the horse is not ready he can not pull the cart.
So, I want to make sure that I profit from looking at them. God said these things would happen and they are. Yes it is sad, but what fruit does God want to produce in me when I look at the Fruitless Fig Trees? How is He using them to sanctify me?
So, then, if even in this God commands me to rejoice, should I not make sure that I do. I am not called to be happy that the “churches” in America are crumbling, but I can rejoice that my God is still able to use those Churches to touch the hearts of those He wants to touch. That they do not thwart His plan. That He is wanting to use what I see going on to turn my heart toward Him. For my faith to increase!
I want to make sure that when I look at people and churches that are fruitless that my first goal is to glorify the Lord by obeying His commands to let my mind dwell on what is true, pure and lovely. Because when I do that I find my heart is full of joy and peace as I keep my eyes fixed on Him.
And then if God calls me to speak to someone I am going at the urging of the Holy Spirit not at the urging of “the wrong.” I do not go as you said looking for any result other than pleasing God! God is using those Fruitless Fig Trees for good in my life so that I might bear good fruit. The fruit of the Spirit needs to be evident in me!
So I loved your post, God used it to prompt me to say, “God show me where I might be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. Show me where I might be just like those fruitless fig trees.
Psalm 141:5 Let a righteous man strike me—it is a kindness; let him rebuke me—it is oil on my head. My head will not refuse it.
Thank you again. May we consider how to encourage one another to love and good deeds. (The fruit of the Spirit!)
Rejoice!
Perhaps, Mike, the men that didn’t listen to you in 2004 were heeding the word of God and just not the word of Mike…
Paul and Luann,
I did not post the comment, but I did receive one a few days ago from a fellow who voiced all those objections you used plus many more. It was as if he was critiquing everything we say and teach and do. He even used that statement you used, “We just follow the Bible, we don’t need all that made up stuff by man.” Could it be that very few anymore grow up with the Confessions and Catechisms so they DON’T know the truth. It would be very interesting to track back to who initially said that. Have they even read them? If they did and still say they are unbiblical then I wonder what Bible they are using.
In Christ
Mike Ratliff
Chris L.
Let’s see. I say that God wants us to be devoted to Him and obey Him and they ignore me. Instead they want to count noses and debate on what color to paint the fellowship hall in between talking about football and what tv shows they watched. Hmmmm. No, I think they didn’t want any one rocking their boat.
In Christ
Mike Ratliff
They ‘skim’ through the Catechisms and Confessions, so they say, and then make that kind of a comment. We thought the same thing Mike……..if they had read them, then they’d know they are a wealth of information and years of studying.
Chris L………….don’t quite understand your comment, but if you are saying that Mike didn’t have the Word of God and it was just his own words then you haven’t been reading his posts for very long if at all.
Tami,
What you did there is what the mature believer does. He or she looks at all the things brought to the forefront of their consciousness, including suffering, and asks God to teach them through it and to be glorified in them as He takes them through it.
What God has taught me through this is that I must not be afraid of those who don’t like to hear it. I must tell the truth. The enemy does try to intimidate us into silence through all sorts of things, but we must obey God. Also, He is teaching me that He is in control regardless what these people do. He is going to save His people. Our telling the truth may or may not cause them to repent, but it is His will that we obey Him by doing so. I suppose He will tell us why when We meet Him face-to-face.
In Christ
Mike Ratliff
Sweet! that is 2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.
God didn’t give us the spirit of selfishness, worrying about what others will think of us… He gave us power, (the Holy Spirit) love (a new heart – a heart for God’s glory) and self-discipline – a commitment to do what God has called you to do. Yeah!!
Thank you
Tami, you are very welcome my sister!!
Well the irony is that I pastor in a reformed church who still teaches the Heidelberg Catechism, Belgic Confession, Westminster and every year we go through Calvin’s Institutes and people still argue about the color of carpeting.
Hmmmm…makes me think maybe it’s not just the “seeker-sensitive” movement thats got the issue.
Continue on with your pious blather.
Well Chris, I did not ever state in my article nor do any of us here believe that those things are any guarantee that people are not Spirit-filled. My point is that religiosity, of any flavor, is not what God is after from His people. No, His will for us is to be devoted to Him in our obedience. Is that pious blather? In other words your comment is just an example of the Straw Man Fallacy.
I’ve been reading him for a couple years now, and I recognize a distinct disability in his writing that frequently equates his opinions as if they are God’s while consigning others to outer darkness…
Proverbs 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.
The works-centered theology of the church growth movement is what fascinates me most. They seem to completely ignore the passage about the Lord building the house. Seems to me that there is a great deal of pride involved in building a huge church using these methods.
If only they could know the sweet grace of God and stop working so hard and so worthlessly in His stead. Only when He builds the church can we be assured its foundation is quite solid.
What a surprise, the flesh can rear its ugly head in any theological camp. Who knew? I only subscribe to one confession, the Frueh Confession. It consists of 66 books and although I strive I am sometimes found a hypocrite.
Pious blather is better than secular blather.
(John Wesley circa 1774)
BTW – every believer should be a seeker and lost people usually are being sought. So a Biblical “seeker” church should be filled with hungry and thirsty believing seekers of Christ and His Word. (strobe lights are optional!)
BTW – Mike, the planet Zargon called, they’ve revoked your citizenship!
I was surprised to learn you were from Zargon, I guessed Zoltar because of your theology!
I of course am from Mercuricon since we owe allegience to no one and just when you though you were safe we throw a blanket of conviction on all of us.
We Mercuriconians seldom are invited to parties!
Mike, I just want to write this to counter the negative comments you are receiving. I am learning so much by your posts and the Lord has given me a hunger for his word like I have never had before. Thank you, and keep up the good work
Chris L, my brother, what has got you so angry? Why should you be so upset that we simply say what the word says showing God’s people what some say is Christianity is not. That is called contending for the faith… brother.
Thanks for that wisdom Charlie.
Amen Jen!
Amen Aaron and thanks for the encouragement. Dig deep my brother!!!
Not “outer” darkness, just darkness.
I just don’t get it, Mike seems to avoid using names and just usually presents principles. I guess that is unacceptable as well. I can see why some feel other blogs are sometimes offensive, I will never understand why Mike gets such attacks. I have always found him balanced.
Mike even presents his reformed theology in a Christian tone so as not to dismuss us poor Arminians completely. I am sometimes more vitriolic than is he, and I appreciate that Mike!
Thanks Rick, I am quite glad that the casting into outer darkness is not for me… or any other human to do. I appreciate the encouragement brother.
Mike, I really enjoy your posts, they get me thinking. But it is the negative comments that you get that reveal to me if I am applying what I learn. Negative comments stir me up and reveal the dross. It is only when I see sin and recognize it that I can repent and turn. Not by my power but through His!
It is good for me to learn to lay aside foolishness and not dwell on it, but to focus on what is beneficial and builds me up.
Ephesians 4:29
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen (or those who read)
I notice that those who comment negatively don’t tend to do it with gentleness or kindness. That is a sign to me that it is flesh driven not spirit driven.
Galatians 5:24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
But rather….
Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.
Don’t grow weary, grow stronger!
Tami
Tami,
Thanks for this wisdom. This is exactly what the Holy Spirit is working in us all to produce. Your insight here is a product of that my sister. I have been looking at the passages in the Bible a lot lately that talk about our joy in the fire. The immature Christian doesn’t understand this and may even resent it. That is why we need the mature believers to come along side them to counsel and encourage them in the Lord to ‘consider it all joy’ and explain why this true.
All,
What is not of the Spirit is sin. What is of the flesh is sin always. That is why we are to do all as unto the Lord. I fall woefully short of this of course, because like all of you, I am a work in progress. This being so, how can any of us look down our noses at our weaker brethren? No, let us encourage one another as Tami has done here.
In Christ
Mike Ratliff
Mike said:
“What happened was that I shared with the men at our old church the wonderful news that all God really wants from us is our devotion and obedience rather than just our religiosity.”
Amen!!
Although… on this BLOG I am the guy from Zargon….. does the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross still apply? 8-).
The problem I have with “getting caught up in religiosity” is the idea that Christ and the Cross are demoted to 1/3 the way down the page… even in the Good Presbyterian Churches that understand the Belgic confession, the Canon of Dordt, Heidelberg confessions and the idea that Martin Luther had a Diet of Worms (Ick!!!!!!).
Just because they ahdere to these confessions does not mean that cant get caught up in their religiosity.
Christ came and walked among sinners and lived a perfect life. He empathized with sinners and spoke to them in parables about their sin. He demonstrated Grace to the prostitute (who washed his feet) and spoke strong words to the religious. Have we lost that concept in todays religious world?
In Christ,
Jon,
There is no class system here.
We are all just works in progress in the hands of the potter. And like Rick said above, I am not the one who casts people into outer darkness, but I am gifted by the Spirit in such a way that my words cut to the heart. That’s his work, not mine, but I also must be very careful how I use this gift. I am not perfect so if you have been hurt here then please forgive me. I pray that you will draw near unto the Lord and seek to do His will. Be wise in Him brother.
In Christ
Mike Ratliff
Jen! Jen!
Amen!!!!!
Thank you Mike.
And about “Joy in the fire.” The measure of our joy will always be directly related to the value we place on what the “product” of the fire is meant to produce in us.
That is why James 1:2 only makes sense if you value James 1:3- 4
2Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
Mature, complete, lacking in nothing – Like JESUS!! I
Tami
Amen Tami!!! Yes indeed, Christlikeness is that ultimate fruit that combines it all. This is why we must stand against all forms of Christianity that downplays or devalues the necessity of genuine discipleship. Of course, our part is to pursue God and value things He produces in us through our trials with the highest value.
In Christ
Mike Ratliff
Mike… I tend to look at things from a different point of view…. would you agree that when you say, “This is why we must stand against all forms of Christianity that downplays or devalues the necessity of genuine discipleship. ” and if I were to say, …. “That is why we must stand firm in the truth.” …. that those are saying the same thing?
It is like bank tellers. They learn to recognize countefiet money because they handle the real stuff so much. If we focus on truth and delight in it then we can recognize lies and false teaching because we know truth!
Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
If we walk in the light as He is in the light than darkness is exposed for what it is!
Thank you again Mike. I take it that your spiritual giftedness is teaching. Thank you for using your gift to God’s glory.
Tami
Amen Tami, and yes I am a Bible teacher. Thanks for your prayers and and this edifying and encouraging discussion.
We agree Charlie! And Rick, I needed a good laugh this morning
And all I can say for Chris is I feel very sorry for his ‘church’. He is a pastor? No wonder the great falling away is happening!!! Is it right to interpret that this Chris is one of those thorns that Paul talked about? Mike, be encouraged because we do know what you say is Biblical and not just your own interpretation.
I havent read much of what Chris wrote in other BLOGS but his opinion does matter. Peoples minds are idols factories. A very common thing for Christians to do when they feel like they are in the truth is to develop a sense of superiority over having that truth. The roots of phariseeism are being established. We replace our identiyy in Christ with an identity of being religious.
I heard a sermon from a Presbyterian Pastor who said in summary that:
“We will never hunger for Christs beauty until we have seen the filth of our own vain efforts to make ourselves beautiful”
How true.
and Mike said it Well. There is no class system here. We all need to fight against this at all times because the flesh is alive and well in us and the accuser is trying to work his methods.
Mike – I enjoyed the teaching.
One word of caution………………
Unless you know ( not just a stranger online who ‘professes Christ’) I wouldn’t call hardly anyone ‘Brother’, the known fruit will make someone apparent to be a ‘brother’ not just words written about Jesus or His teachings, or someone’s supposed ‘title’ of “Pastor”.
Not that you have anything to loose by calling them that, but they might be more falsely ‘set’ in their ‘decisional regeneration’ by other fruit bearing, true Brothers calling them something they may not even be. Hope I made my point clearly, if not let me know.
Paul was troubled by ‘false brothers’, which is clearly possible as you well know…they are ‘vain professors’ rather than true and all they do is argue with truth and mix in their error and cause confusion with the weak and babes. It usually comes in the forms discussed above with the same titles and attitudes.
Thanks again, His Love- and keep up the praying and teachings…they are full of His good bread!
It seems we can be sincere in our “efforts”, but if our ultimate focus is anything other God’s glory, then we are merely being religious, no matter how well-intentioned or sincere we are.
I have been reading a book by Major W. Ian Thomas over the last couple of months (not that I’m a slow reader, just that there is so much good stuff!). In it he states that Christ is our ultimate example of what it means to do everything to the glory of God. Christ did nothing of Himself (even though He was God!), but instead submitted Himself completely to the Father’s will. That really gives me pause when I think about doing things out of religiosity or “responsibility”. God would rather have our inward yieldedness and submission to Him over our outward shows of mere religion.
Correct attitude on the inside will always yield good fruit on the outside.
Thanks, Mike, for (again) making me think.
Most of the evangelical church has a Babylonian mindset. They have become accustomed to and in fact fond of the culture and the cultural expressions of religion. Fruit is now defined within these cultural contexts and not living and distinctive revelations of Jesus Christ.
The Word is not just ink of pages, it is the spiritual conduit through which the Word, Jesus Christ, is communicated and even imputed. The Word is not just a textbook, it is meat which grows the believer’s spirit which grows the believer’s walk. The Pastor’s calling, as well as all the elders, are to teach the Word of God.
Is it not conspicuous that the early elders refused to help in feeding widows!? Wow, how could they be like Jesus and refuse to serve tables!! I guess some would criticize them for that today, but even unbelievers can feed the poor, but elders are called to feed sheep with the Word and prayer.
No one is arguing against ministering to physical needs, but to downplay and even deny the importance of teaching God’s Word is to deny its importance, downplay the office, and completely redefine the calling of a pastor. “Growing a church” is not our goal, preaching the Word in season and out is what we are called to.
Listen below as a popular pastor downplays praying and preaching and even loving people. Post modern “bait” is what he suggests implimented skillfully to draw people in.
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5029
Thanks Brent. I agree brother.
You are very welcome Carrie!
Amen Rick!
Carrie, (I hope it is ok to respond to your comment.) I love your comment… it reveals your heart!
Your comment made me think of these verses..
1 Samuel 15:22
But Samuel replied: “Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD ? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
James 3: 9With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. 11Can both fresh water and salt[a] water flow from the same spring? 12My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
Luke 6 : 43″No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. 45The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.
Thank you for the fellowship…. it is sweet.
Tami
How does Galatians 5:16-25 compare with Romans 7:14-8:11???
“How does Galatians 5:16-25 compare with Romans 7:14-8:11???”
One is the victory, the other is the struggle. A true believer experiences both.
FH,
Galatians 5:16-25 describes the contrast between the fruits of the flesh and the fruit of the spirit. Paul is exhorting the Galatians here to Walk by the Spirit instead of walking according to the Flesh. The reason he is doing this is to show how trying to please God with works of the flesh will never work and will only produce sin. The Galatians were being subdued by Judiazers who were teaching them that to be true Christians they had to become Jews even though they were Gentiles.
Romans 7:14-8:11 starts out with Paul explaining his spiritual condition before he was saved. It also describes what we are all like when we walk according to the flesh. He describes the war between the Spirit and our flesh and how it is impossible to win this war in the flesh. Then in chapter 8 Paul tells us about life in the Spirit which is possible for us because of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross as a man. Verses 5-8 actually match up very well with Galatians 5:16-25. All believers are spiritually alive, but we don’t all walk according to the Spirit. The genuine believer will not stay that way though.
Rick’s answer is correct as well. His is the summary, mine is the detail.
In Christ
Mike Ratliff
FishHook is back? He didn’t know the difference between Gal. 5 and Rom. 7? Wow, all I can say is just…………………….wow. Mike and Rick, you got it goin-on!
Chris,
Isn’t it easier to just come out and say what is really in your heart? Something like, “Nah -nanny -boo -boo, I am a pastor! I am superior, Nah-nanny-boo- boo.”
At least then you could be honest while being pious. We may respect you a little more for the honesty part anyhow. Chris, you sound like the kind of guy who wants to exercise dominion over the sheep, usually fleecing yourself instead of feeding his flock. Your fruit is bad. Your own words expose you by your own admission. Take a look at your own heart.
The summary statement of Galatians verses stated are:
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Also the first several chapters of Romans discuss man’s complete inability to please God on his own and only through Christ can we see any level of righteoussness (Romans 1:17).
Romans 12 says then that IN VIEW OF GODS MERCY {on the cross} should we offer our bodies as living sacrifices holy and pleasing to God
These verses are completely inline with each other in view of the imputed righteousness of Christ and our complete inability to please God. Only, “In Christ” are we acceptable.
The idea of struggle is “ok”, IMO, but the ideas of men creep in among the struggles. Its easy to struggle in view of the righteousness of men as opposed to to doing it in view of Gods Mercy.
In Christ,
Also, in the beginning of Galatians Paul discuss the “truth” of the Gospel and how it gives men freedom. Galatians 2:4-5
4This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. 5We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you.
Then in Galatians2:15
15″We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
17″If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. 19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Important Words Below
21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”[d]
The law exists to point us to our need for a savior because we are all sinners. This is the freedom that Paul discusses only comes through Christ so becomes slave to Christ and not slaves to the law.
Sorry on a roll here. I love Galatians:
From Bible Gateway
Freedom in Christ
1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
The only thing that counts is faith [in Christ] expressing itself through love.
Paul warns us to use the law to point to our need for a savior and as a reminder of our sin but not be slaves to it and to use for our own righteousness
The truth of the Gospel
Implications of the Gospel Message and his Procalamation of the Gospel from Galatians:
Tims complete article is here
http://spadinofamily.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/centrality-of-the-gospel1.pdf
Implication #1 – The power of the gospel. First, Paul is showing us that that bringing the gospel truth to bear on every area of life is the way to be changed by the power of God. The gospel is described in the Bible in the most astounding terms. Angels long to look into it all the time. (I Peter 1:12). It does not simply bring us power, but it is the power of God itself, for Paul says “I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation” (Rom.1:16). It is also the blessing of God with benefits, which accrue to anyone who comes near (I Cor.9:23). It is even called the very light of the glory of God itself–”they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ…for God…has made his light shine into our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” (II Cor.4:4,6) It has the life of God. Paul said to the Corinthians, “I gave you birth through the gospel”! And then, after it has
regenerated us, it is the instrument of all continual growth and spiritual progress after we are converted. “All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God’s grace in all its truth.” (Col. 1:6). Here we learn: 1) That the gospel is a living thing (cf. Romans 1:16) which is like a seed or a tree that brings more and more new life–bearing fruit and growing. 2) That the gospel is only “planted” in us so as to bear fruit as we understand its greatness and implications deeply—understood God’s grace in all its truth. 3) That the gospel continues to grow in us and renew us throughout our lives–as it has been doing since the day you heard it. This text helps us avoid either an exclusively rationalistic or mystical approach to renewal. On the one hand, the gospel has a content–it is profound doctrine. It is truth, and specifically, it is the truth about God’s grace. But on the other hand, this truth is a living power that continually expands its influence in our lives, just as a crop or a tree would grow and spread and dominate more and more of an area with roots and fruit.
Implication #2- The sufficiency of the gospel. Second, Paul is showing that we never “get beyond the gospel” in our
Christian life to something more “advanced”. The gospel is not the first “step” in a “stairway” of truths, rather, it is more like the “hub” in a “wheel” of truth. The gospel is not just the A-B-C’s but the A to Z of Christianity. The gospel is not just the minimum required doctrine necessary to enter the kingdom, but the way we make all progress in the kingdom.
We are not justified by the gospel and then sanctified by obedience, but the gospel is the way we grow (Gal.3:1-
3) and are renewed (Col.1:6). It is the solution to each problem, the key to each closed door, the power through every barrier (Rom.1:16-17). It is very common in the church to think as follows. “The gospel is for non-Christians. One needs it to be saved. But once saved, you grow through hard work and obedience.” But Col.1:6 shows that this is a mistake. Both confession and “hard work” that is not arising from and “in line” with the gospel will not sanctify you–it will strangle you. All our problems come from a failure to apply the gospel. Thus when Paul left the Ephesians he committed them “to the word of his grace, which can build you up” (Acts 20:32)
The main problem, then, in the Christian life is that we have not thought out the deep implications of the gospel,
we have not “used” the gospel in and on all parts of our life. Richard Lovelace says that most people’s problems are just a failure to be oriented to the gospel–a failure to grasp and believe it through and through. Luther says, “The truth of the Gospel is the principle article of all Christian doctrine….Most necessary is it that we know this article well, teach it to others, and beat it into their heads continually.” (on Gal.2:14f) The gospel is not easily comprehended. Paul says that the gospel only does its renewing work in us as we understand it in all its truth. All of us, to some degree live around the truth of the gospel but do not “get” it. So the key to continual and deeper spiritual renewal and revival is the continual rediscovery of the gospel. A stage of renewal is always the discovery of a new implication or application of the gospel– seeing more of its truth. This is true for either an individual or a church.
The Gospel is…
We are more sinful and weak than we ever dared to admit and…
We are more loved and accepted than we ever dared to hope.
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